Welcome to another episode of Marketing Made Easy by… RSM-marketing, I’m your host, Ryan Clem and today we’re talking to executive producer of hydraulic studios. Peter Espinoza, he’s been here a while, he’s seen a lot and has a lot of good guidance and feedback for any client wanting to shoot a video.

He talks a little bit about what goes on behind the scenes. The pre-pro needed for a shot. What goes into quoting a shoot, how to make a video compelling and some little tricks on to up the ante on your video.

Let’s listen in…

Peter, I welcome, thank you, right, and so let’s start just talking a little bit about you. I know you’ve been here at our son marketing for a while, tell us how you started out and how long you’ve been the Executive Producer of hydraulic.

So I started at RSM. Which was previously or marketing a little over seven years ago as an intern, as an account service in turn, working on the account side and kind of worked my way up through the account team and up to an account coordinator, account executive.

And then during that time, the great thing about marketing is working for an agency, you get to work with not only every type of client, “but in every avenue of marketing and kind of figure out what you like the best. And I had always done kind of freelance and have freelance photography and a little bit of video and that just became particularly interesting to me doing all that, so I was vocal about what I wanted to do, and I made my way onto the video team as a producer and then learn to shoot at a professional level from our director Clint herring to shoot. Nett continued my role as the kind of executive producer and now that’s been doing that for four or five years, and that’s still what I do today.

I feel like that gives you a unique perspective because you’re someone who’s got the best of both worlds. You’ve been on the client side and you know what it’s like to work with clients and what clients are looking for and what they want and then you also have this step knowledge and talent on the video side. You’re not someone who kinda grew up in video, and then how to figure out what clients want. You grew up in that, so to speak, here at ARs and that’s why it’s… So I think my role is important over at hydraulic studios, because we service all the clients that are Shawn they need video and photo work. But I’ve got my own book of clients that are hydraulic studio specific, and obviously they find out about RSM at some point in the relationship, and the other services we offer, ’cause I wanna make sure they know, but sometimes initially, they won’t even know that we’re part of a larger agency, if it’s just not necessary for them to know and they’ll just work with us and they’ll work with me directly. You will get all there. We’ll do all the pre-production, production, post-direction, communication delivery. And they may not even know that RSM is on the other side of it just because they have no need for additional services. It’s a smaller type job and they know it’s a one-off, small budget type thing, but those the account service skills and client-facing skills I learned in my early days have been beneficial to the video part of the agency definitely.

So for folks who don’t know, hydraulic Studios is a company with him or marketing. And to your point, sometimes there is overly there and sometimes people can just work with hydraulic studios, if that’s what they’re… Meaning. Let’s give just a quick summary of the services that hydraulic Studio offers.

So like Rand mentioned 1 Studios is a, I guess we call it a division of RSA marketing, but we created our own brand many years back, just to be able to market ourselves to people who might adjusted video, and then that works really well. So we decided to create air capital drone company, which is essentially, it’s a the division of hydraulic studio for people who just need drone work its up direct easy way for them to find us if they just need aerial type work, which a lot of times converts into traditional videography and potentially photo services as well, but we… So, obviously drone services, we’ve been flying for a little over four years now, we have Ford on staff if a part 107 licensed pilots, and so, we’re very experienced in drone photography and in terms of services every in any type of video production, you can need brand video animation social media campaign book volume type videos we’ve done a ton, big sets of product videos, like for a fire or company, they have these firework companies that come in every summer they have 160-200 skus, and it’s a progressive thing. Updating the product videos for what these fireworks look like.

And so you’ll do 50 or 100 of those, the summer.

So both volume videos, any type of video and photo production service we we can do.

And I, I, if there ever every now and then someone presents something that we might not know how to do, but the answer is always no, but let me go find out and we just figure out how to do it.

I think that’s something that the Hydraulic Studios, team is really good at is getting into the weeds. It came from the client services side, and I always felt like when we had kind of a weird obscure request, it was never a no, it was always like you said, we’re gonna figure that out and I know your team also is used to having long shoots, multiple day shoots. I think sometimes, we always think things are gonna be easier than they are, but that’s typically not the reality when shooting especially as a big project, right?

Yeah, and going back to your… In the weeds, I think that is part of one of the main values of arm which is curiosity. One of the things we love about our job is there’s always new technology, and all those new pieces of software that we’re having to locate and find to solve problems, whether it’s taking grain out of how to footage that screen that light client, provided or something like that, find being the way to do that. If it’s not built in to the software we already have is something we kinda thrive on. And we teach.

Are people from, from the first day they work here, the… If it looks like it’s not possible… Or it’s not possible with the tools you’re given, we expect you to go figure it out and find out how to do it better if there’s a way, it’s essentially problem-solving, but in a very fun way to that video is fun inherently, and finding a way to make your process is easier, better, and to create a better product. It’s fun, it’s fun to… Oh, I know you guys have to find that solution, and you’re like, “Okay there it is, right? So speaking of technology, there’s one piece of technology that if you look at in one way it’s competitor, not just for us, but maybe for all studios and it’s something very small, and it’s the iPhone or any kind of smartphone. And I know from working with clients it’s… Well, okay that’s great, you guys do that, but can I just shoot it in in a phone?

Let’s talk a little bit about maybe when that works and when it doesn’t and what you might be missing out on, when you don’t work with the professional company.

Well, so the answer to that is sometimes yes, for a lot of social media videos that are quick hitting quick turn around, even though we consider ourselves the hydraulic suit or we have the ability for incredibly quick turnaround, even if we’re shooting with our Cinema Cameras, but of course you can shoot a lot. And produce a lot of great video, especially for social campaigns or just immediate social request with your iPhone. The thing that you gotta remember is if you still wanted to be acceptable and worthwhile there’s still things to consider. There’s still the orientation for one.

I work in a right well and holding it horizontal rather than vertical, but there’s still having the phone properly, stabilized which there’s tools to do that. There’s audio specific set-ups where you can just plug in to your iPhone because audio is important, if it’s you’re in the wind, it’s shaky and no one can hear you, it’s not gonna be as effective. The there is lighting set-ups for iPhones or any type of phone, whatever.

So if you’re going to do it on a phone, I think you need to pick your spots and think about it opportunistically but also be prepared with the right amount of equipment.

Yeah, to, to do it. So it’s not just a waste, and so it’s effective on the other end of things. So an audio alone is huge. I know I’ve for volunteer stuff I’ve done, shot little videos and you think… Oh, it’s so great. And then you get it and I move in, you’re like, “Oh I can’t hear anything.

Yeah, I mean people see these you’ll see Apple put out a commercial. I know that shows these students making this incredible looking for… Do you think it’s really the iPhone?

Absolutely, the amount of pre-production and gear production and planning that actually goes into making it look like that is monnaie. Don’t see it is a… Yeah, it’s essentially is shooting a film, but just once it’s time to roll the camera it’s an iPhone. There’s so much that goes into making it look back good, right?

It’s kind of an anomaly. Those kids spend a lot of time to make that short look like that. I think John Favre was in the commercial but there’s… To make it look any sort of cinematic or even approach a professional-looking video it would take a huge amount of work. And at that point, you’re more… You should steer towards hiring for proper Cinema Cameras, professional videographers. ’cause at that point, it’s just right, it just makes sense, yeah, and the video is only as good, regardless of the equipment of the person shooting in the expertise that comes with it. And I know a question that a lot of clients have when it comes just shooting and like you said, there’s so much that goes on behind it. The actual shooting of the video is kind of like the tip of the iceberg. So let’s talk a little bit about you know when someone comes to us and says… All right, now I wanna shoot something. What goes into that planning from starting of the job? So yes, we wanna do it to actually arriving there to shoot.

What are the steps involved? Where do you start as as that producer where do I start, me?

Well, a lot of times the studio and the creative set the studio will come in in the concept phase, which is especially important because we’ve got that creative mind to help de-concept and it make it fun, make it watchable but most importantly for me as the producer, it’s to make sure it’s feasible.

Other I can actually in… Which is really important. Yeah, ’cause a lot of times we’ll get scripts that come in and while they’re incredibly creative and great, you think? Wow, this is a lot of work, this is what it costs and then they’ll say, “Okay well, let’s dial it back a little bit.

It the itinerant INGO a shoot. First of all, and we may touch on this later, but the… It’s kind of the un-scenes of video production that I try to educate people on when they say, “Oh why does it cost… That, and there’s things like, I mean simply gear prep, I’m preparing gear for a shoot a.We’ll probably spoke during a week. If we have two or three shoots, we could spend, potentially, upwards of the six hours total just prepping gear turning over here, making sure everything set up correctly ’cause it’s gears a temperamental. You could forget one small thing and just be absolutely yeah, just kind of be screwed. Honestly. You could forget headphones, and then you can’t monitor audio, and then you’ve gotta find another way is so much intricacies of gear and making sure, you’ve got what you need to show up on site prepared watching you guys at the shoot with your suit cases and all that, and getting it all out, it’s so quick, it’s like if I had to get all that out, it would take me a day and a half. But I know you guys are used to it, and it’s just it all just pops up, but I know that’s just because you’ve got the experience and you do it all the time. Well, and we’ve got the rhythm of our team that what you just described is absolutely chalked up to… Yes, we know the gear, but we know each other really well.

And Clinton, I who’s the director, Hydra studio. We always, sometimes on shoots will surprise each other because we know each other’s tend. See, so well, and we know like, we’re opening doors and we’ll just all of a sudden our hand will be out and we’ll just know. Oh, I’m grabbing that lens for you and putting the lens capitals. Like you’re an old married couple. Yeah, it’s so intuitive and strange, and sometimes we just kind of laugh at each other because It’s we’re… So on the same page, the son that’s another part of operating and conducting a successful shoot. But that’s kind of, during the production but another part of prior to the production is there is educating and helping the clients or if you’re working with an account person who’s helping the client get their video done really the right suggestions whether if a client wants to source, if there’s an sentence that talent within their company, or find people elsewhere. A lot of times hiring talent is easy. And here, in which a TA, it’s kind of inexpensive but there’s a lot of great talent here. We do it all the time and when it’s right, we will suggest let’s get an actor in there, it’ll make a big difference.

Yes it does, because having someone who’s not an actor reach scripted lines, it never is gonna come off, especially in an A teleprompter involved, no telling, ’cause most people have never read off a teleprompter in their life. And then, it might sound easy but once you start and you’re looking at it, some people just, they don’t have that ability to follow the words and read it. And we got a track back.

But then also, location scouting is hugely important for the production value and the production design of the whole things in scouting location scouting, props, wardrobe there’s so many things that you’ve got to consider prep leading up to that. But the nice thing is when a client works with us, they don’t have to worry about that or think about the gear. I think there’s that intake process right away. And typically I remember when I was that a coordinator with the client, we say, “Okay we’re gonna do this, we might have a call with you and the client and you’re hearing about everything they wanna do, and saying, Okay, that’s feasible or maybe this isn’t or here’s how we could make it feasible. And then you and your team on the back and you’re making sure you have the right here that if we need actors we’re getting them. And so even though there’s all this pre-complex stuff happening, it’s all happening on the back end and really the client doesn’t have to worry about it, right?

No, they get, they get the communication and the collaboration that makes sense for them to be a part of which is like talent scouting, or location scouting. If we bring in some auditions for for a role, what we do is we have the auditions then we set it up and we take the footage we cut it up and be their best takes and we say, “Hey here’s our additions.

We really like number three and five. We think they’d be great. Here’s why, here’s the photos of the location we’re thinking… We think this would be great. This is why, but I’m never gonna say, “Hey I just wanna let you know, we’re gonna be prepping your gear for two hours to to the shoe.

It’s the essentials that they get, and that we collaborate on rather than telling them about our gear prep or a piece of equipment we have to rent for their shoot or something. ’cause sometimes that’s part of it as well.

They are only part of the essential part of the collaboration that they need to know ’cause they shouldn’t have to worry about whether or not we’re gonna bring the right equipment, they’re not subject matter experts, on video. Our job is to show up with all the equipment ready, to go set up and then execute and that they shouldn’t even never have to worry about, whether that’s gonna be part of it or not. We have the right equipment.

Yeah, and all the shots I’ve been a part of, which has been quite a few. That’s always just flawless and it’s never something that… Yeah, like you said, it’s an issue.

So there’s a lot of steps involved in an e-on our end, but in terms of what goes into coding a video, I think a lot of clients when they decide they need a video and we talk with them and decide the direction we’re gonna head one of the early questions as well, how much is it gonna cost? And I know that there is no standard cost for a video, it’s incredibly variable but what goes into a quoting a video for a client.

So there’s a lot of things, but there’s also a lot of things we don’t bring up because it may just be over the client’s head and they’re gonna say, “I don’t know what that means. So the variables that affected most star amount of shoot days amount of Personnel required to be on site, whether we have to pay talent, pay location fees, and then the amount of deliverables and type of post-production and what’s a post-production opposed production would be the editing would be the developing and creating of motion graphics and animation and sound mixing and putting it all together into that final piece. And animation is typically always gonna be a little bit more expensive than traditional video race. It just is, it’s very time consuming for the editor to create those motion graphics, but… But there’s different layers of animation in different tiers and types and we have examples that we can always share with people to show them exactly what we’re talking about, but those factors, which is base of shoots type and amount of post-production, and then those hard costs which would be, talent, a easier music beds remoteness to a premium beat to come.

So those are the main factors that you really… That I look at when quoting a video for a client.

I think it’s pretty impressive to think even though we have a huge range of what we do, I think it’s also pretty impressive to see, we may go on site to a client’s location and interview them. Or maybe some of their customers, but with a simple interview with them and then what we call B-roll, which pre-or… I didn’t know what bureaus, but now it’s like ingrained into my blood and that’s basically just action shots of things happening because it makes a video a lot more interesting, so we might get some good clips from people talking to the camera, but then we also like to, to, to lot of El and a music bed maybe some voice-over which it’s amazing how quickly we can get auditions on that. We’ve got a really simple online vendor that we use and I bless right, and I think… And local talent yeah, local is nice, but I think sometimes including myself, used to think, “Oh we have to have someone come in and record this, and now it’s just so easy to get that in a matter of hours, so it’s really impressive to see how we can take a small amount of shooting and actually make something that’s pretty darn impressive. Yeah, and that ball that’s that supplemental footage, and supplemental assets that you also wanna have when there’s a video centered around an interview or a testimonial or something, but that’s not all there’s… So like say for doing a history or a brand video for a client, there’s so many other assets you can use historical footage historical photos client provided. That’s a good point, really up the production value of something like that. So, Brits, not the only supplemental thing… You can use to bring out the best of your video, but it’s always incredibly important to offer for that time.

And I’ve seen videos to the hydraulic studios has done where it’s no video, it’s just photos and you guys. But I’m not gonna speak with the technical terms, but a cool effect looks like a video, ’cause you’re kinda moving in moving out to go to a panning and zooming digital panning consuming. Yes, so yeah, we can… If a client maybe has only a certain budget to work with, I think you guys do a great job of making something compelling with whatever that budget is, and being compelling is so important now because let’s face it, we’ve got a lot of videos out there and a lot of people making videos and people with their iPhones and no matter what platform you’re on, Facebook, YouTube, videos or everywhere. So what are some things when we shoot for a client? I think we’re always trying to think. Okay, yes, you have this need for the specific video, but it’s nice to kinda create an inventory right of footage that we can use for future is uses.

So what are some ways that you guys, when you’re shooting something for a client, try to make it useful for a one other instances beyond that particular use?

Yeah, so a lot of time, we experience this a client requests will come in, they say, I want this video, I want this one video, here’s what I want. And they kinda have they’re just kind of dialed in on that they know that they need this, but in almost every instance, we say great, we can do that but if we plan for a little bit of extra shooting a little bit of extra production, you can stretch that video and then turn it into a 100. other things for 36-90-12 months, even longer. The shelf life of video is… So, it’s so brilliant. ’cause the quality of the shelf life is so long and you can continue to break it out, turn it into different things, whether that’s social media, videos, bumper ads. What’s a bum pre-roll pre-roll in bumper ads, are like a YouTube respectively… 15 and six second ads that you can place on YouTube, and then there’s video. So, repurpose able. And so in almost every occasion when you’re talking to a perspective client, they say… Oh yeah, that’s great and that’s easy ’cause we already have it re-done it… We’ve shot it and a lot of times we’ll plan, we’ll shoot one video and then they’ll say, “Can we make this other video to this answer is almost always yes, so yeah and it’s always either easier when we’re the ones that shot it ’cause we know we know. Oh, there’s that one scene and it was… And we always overshoot it’s very intentional, we shoot way more than is actually planned and you know the…

I may not even know we’re just over-shooting will were on-site. It’s just to have this huge big library to give them such a range for final products, later right, right, and even though we know what the deliverables are, I think our account team and you guys certainly we’ll be thinking about, Okay, what are the next three to six months look like from here? And that was… And we also know to ask those questions ’cause it’s important to obviously, we can do it and we can be flexible and create something that wasn’t anticipated later on, but if we plan for it up front, you’ve got the ability for higher quality videos and higher volume so you can spread it out over your social pages for a year before you even need to think about shooting more video right, right, let’s talk about Facebook and Instagram specifically, because that’s where a lot of these videos, ultimately go even if they’re a cut down from something else. When you’re over shooting or just plain shooting, how do you make sure you capture something that’s compelling for social media?

Well, I we always look for a… We always look for what usually ends up in those shorter social media videos is the best of the best. It’s that shot that’s gonna make someone stop scrolling.

And I see it’s ’cause you’ve only got a second or two, maybe even less so. And sometimes there’s not even a logo, but it’ll make them stop and then they hear something.

So shooting for those quick hitting social media videos were always looking for that for that EPIC or that hero shot whether that’s a shooting at at The Golden Hour. And a lot of times, I like to suggest area for that. I like to suggest or on video, ’cause even though it’s it’s more common now than it was five 10 years ago, it still makes most people stop in their tracks just to see what it ayya… And that happened to me actually just last night, I was looking at this Country Club golf course Instagram account and they had shot all this drone footage of when we had all that rain a few weeks ago, and they were just flying around the course of all the rain, but I was like, “Whoa I wasn’t even necessarily interested, but it popped up into my sponsored a sponsored post on my feed and yeah, it really did make me stop scrolling and then I went on to their page. I was looking at other stuff and drone footage, I think is another one of those things that other people have them and people who “are professionals and I know that there’s a lot of regulation that comes with that to shoot certain things. And maybe you could speak a little bit to that. And what makes us good at capturing that kind of footage for people?

Yeah, so the first thing I always tell people is, If they inquired to us though our capital drunk company, they think… Alright, these are drone guys, they come out, shoot my drone video and they’re usually pleasantly surprised when I say, “Hey we can absolutely do that, but I wanna tell you who I draw studio is and here’s why and that is we are professional videographers and editors, first and professional drone pilot, second and that’s only because we’ve been doing the traditional side of videography way longer, but we’re thinking… You can hire anybody to go out and put up a drone, and fly around something. I bring it down but the… There’s a mic. Professionalism and experience in value you get from hiring an actual videographer to do it because we’re thinking shot first, we plan our shots by batteries.

No, right before you fly. Okay, let’s plan here. Here’s the shots, we need boom, boom, boom. Once we get those shots, we should be near the end of the battery and if we are, we’ll get a little something extra but then you bring it down, you change the batteries out and you plan for your next shot list again and then, you fly up just so, you’re capitalizing. And so, videographers first, and then drone pilot, second. But another reason to go with a professional is because… Because the regulations of the FA… And I won’t go into them all because they’re kind of maddening but you have to be a pilot, right?

Oh yeah, and we have four on staff licensed pilots but flying, I always say this flying the actual copter itself is easy. It’s called a copter.

Yeah, it’s a quad copter.

But keeping up with the FAS regulations is way harder way. It was by far the hardest part of being a professional. Drone pallet once you are out there and flying it around it’s very responsive. It works of GPS assistance, unless you’re indoors. And so keeping up with the regulations, staying licensed applying and communicating with their traffic control towers to let them know where you are when you’re flying out, and there are certain places you can’t even go or especially in what our TA… Because of so many airports in the… There’s temporary flight restrictions, like if “monals doing some sort of flight test or something. Their extended no-fly zones extend even further prisons. Sometimes you can’t fly like downtown, which is A is pretty restricted, because they see the jail downtown as prison. The work release facility over on I can’t remember but over on Waterman and near St. Francis is considered a prison in the FAS. I sat you flying or in and around or flying around the arena is really restricted now so there’s a ton of restrictions and especially in which it talks tough to navigate those for you guys, you guys are all a rest on that. And not only do you know that, but you also know the right shots. And I think, like we talked about a second ago, drone footage is great for social media, I’ve seen it on the home pages of websites just kind of those really nice panoramic shots of a customers facility or business or whatever it may be having an aerial shot in any sort of video production all ways up the roots, the action value and an E, if it makes sense, we always suggest it and a lot of times, we can just add it into the production at no cost because it was…

We’re out there as you’re out there in the air, space is good to go. So, and another thing I wanna talk about dealing with the FAA and flight restrictions, and staying safe and legal. We are in contact with the local AAA office and if we ever have a question or unsure about something, we just give our guy call and he can clear it up for us. So let’s say it a client didn’t know about these regulations. ’cause some people don’t. If I didn’t work here, I don’t think I would know they can trouble if they flew or they weren’t supposed to.

Oh absolutely, that’s why we stay 100% legal and safe and unfortunately have to turn down some jobs just ’cause you legally can’t fly there and we don’t wanna put ourselves in a position to lose our licenses or lose our drone insurance.

Great, ’cause then we, you know, we turned from operators to up trying to operate illegally, which we wouldn’t do, right, so we don’t take any chances but we do work as hard as we can to figure out the restrictions and figure out a way around it. And it’s frustrating sometimes, because the FA is not great at communicating their changes or their restrictions or the rules, but we just deal with it because we wanna be operators, we wanna maintain that service offering to our clients, right?

And that’s nice assurance. I think clients know that we’re gonna follow FAA guidelines and give them great footage. I can use a lot of ways now, but before we wrap up, I know you’ve been here a while and you’ve seen a lot and you shot a lot so what has been your favorite shoot or one of your favorite shoots?

Most interesting coolest, most bizarre.

Sometimes those are the most fun most. Let me start the most first fall. It was an incredibly fun shot and we got the phenomenal brand video out of it but it was probably the toughest shot, to get through which was a which was a wet dog food factor. I knew you were gonna say that I knew it. That’s not a, “It’s not my favorite, but it’s definitely a elite Chalon. It was the most challenging.

Just because I’ve wet dog food in the Ted. Can you say what dogs food again, Tanning of the wet dog food is a noise.

It was challenging because of the… I’ll call it a Roman and that’s a very nice way to put it.

We were in this facility for two two-and-a-half days. And you just get used to it.

I did throw away some clothing after that shooting though, thank God, but we got a great video out of it.

Other than that, a favorite shoots.

So, that wasn’t your favorite. That’s just most challenging and most challenging. Yeah, and it’s a shoot. We reference a lot, we when we talk to our other video friends and say, “Oh we’re sheer and that’s when we all say…

Yeah, just ’cause it… And we will do anything, almost a… A and that’s a good point too, I think we have such a wide range and I think we also kinda specialize in those industrial shots where we’re going to a factory or and manufacturing facility, which it’s not easy to get compelling footage there, and we understand that “B2B market and we maneuver well right in those settings.

Yeah, we do… We’ve done a lot of industrial manufacturing work, there are a lot of companies who need it here in the Midwest, in Kansas, and in which is A… So we’re very well-versed in that and we kinda promote ourselves as the industrial and manufacturing of a yoga. Hers here in town, but… So I think I know my favorite shoot now. And it was for, it was probably for IQ, which was kind of a Smart Doc brand that made callers lies etcetera. And that’s a case. And your dog was that? Yeah, my dog was in it so maybe that’s why I like it so much, but you know we get to work with dogs. And it was a highly thought out conceptual these that just turned out really, really cool.

They’re overall a really cool brand, they just want an international product awards, so super fun brand, and type of client to work with.

So whether you sell dog food, you make dog products, you’re in an industrial company or Reiter. We cover it all, we do it all, and people are always in good hands with hydraulic studios. So thank you for speaking with us today. Any last lots words of wisdom.

I would say when considering video production leave it don’t, if you have no idea what you’re doing and you have no idea what questions to ask that’s okay just make the call. ’cause I have so many instances where people call and say, Well I think, here’s what I want, this is what… And then it ends up… Well, I don’t really know what I’m doing and that’s okay. Yeah, I, I can absolutely kick it off for you and pull out all that information that you may not even know you need about your video needs. Just call me and I will get you started” and can get you on your way to great video and photo production. And it doesn’t matter if people are in much art right, we’ll travel we have no… We travel everywhere we’re going to Ohio in a couple weeks and then we’re going to California a couple weeks after that, so we’re all over and we’re not restricted to the Midwest region, so well, thank you Peter appreciate it and hydraulic studio dot com, that’s where people can find you and your number, yes alright, awesome, thanks for listening to another episode of Marketing. Made Easy, players and marketing.

If you’ve got questions or suggestions on future topics just follow the link in the description of the steps.

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